I want to send mail, as an ordinary user, with an msn account, to what I
expect will shortly become a very large list of subscribers. I am led to use
my Linux partition because Outlook Express places a limit of 64 on the
number of people on the distribution of a single piece of email and I do not
want to sit at my terminal all night resending mail to groups of 64
I am successfully downloading (on a test basis) the list of subscriber
requests using fetchmail. I've then written a couple of lines of script in
vi to strip away everything expect the subscriber address, saving the result
in a file, 'free'. In my clumsy perusal of vehicles to broadcast a single
message to a large list, I noted that sendmail can trivially do this. On my
debian distribution, exim is called for sendmail. . . which brings me to
exim
Since the 64 limit may be enforced at both Outlook Express and the server
side, I presume I will need to be able to send out mail to the list in
batches < 64
I have looked into having another unix-based ISP handle the list for me
using Mailman, etc, but this will involve out-of-pocket costs, loss of
managerial control, and throw more work onto my unix-ISP (where I have my
home page,
www.richsob.com, and mail forwarding to chiefsob@???,
etc). I have also downloaded Majordomo and smail and xmail and the actual
sendmail and some other clever software to batch mail by address domain and
a host of supporting modules, but at least in some part these seem to lead
back to exim as a prerequisite
I am not interested in or set up to do any hosting. I want to do all of this
at arm's length from msn, etc
As for my background, I am a relative unix novice, although I have a
computer science degree and over 30 years of programming experience on a
number of platforms
I changed route_list = to smtp.email.msn.com and reran exim -d9 -M 13...-00,
and apparently the 1 piece of elm-generated mail preceding 13... left the
spool, but I do see it at the other end
exim generated a bunch of output which it apparently will not redirect to a
file, including
X-Failed-Recipients
*** No recipients
***Bad addresses
Process failed(1) when writing error message to root@(frozen)
This was elm-generated mail (I can provide the header and text if this would
help) with normal well-formed addresses to myself
(dturetsky@??? and davidturetsky@??? and
chiefsob@???) so I assume I must change something else in the config
file
On the presumption that exim can indeed be intelligently used to send bulk
mail, I am not clear _where_ to move the config section referencing the list
I reran exim -bt davidturetsky@??? and got:
david@
<-- davidturetsky@???
deliver to david@
router = smarthost transport=remote_smtp
host smtp.email.msn.com [207.46.181.11]
I've copies sections of the exim website including the entire FAQ file and
am working my way through. My thought to use exim for mailing lists seems to
be confirmed (and conf coding is taken from) the exim web site, 'Using Exim
to handle mailing lists.' I've also bought every relevant O'Reilly book
related to the topic (don't see any on exim)
I'm grateful for the assistance. Would appreciate any broadbrush
recommendations and detailed feedback
David
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave C." <djc@???>
To: "davidturetsky" <davidturetsky@???>
Cc: <exim-users@???>
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2000 7:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Exim] New exim user
>
>
> On Fri, 11 Aug 2000, davidturetsky wrote:
>
> > Thanks so much for your reply. I'll go to work on it as soon as I get a
few
> > hours of sleep
> >
> > I do not work for Microsoft. I simply have an account with msn and want
to
> > use that ISP to send mail to a list from Linux
> >
> > Any further comments or advice would be most welcome
>
> You want to host a list, or you want to send mail to a list that
> already exists? In order to host a list at the 'free.email.msn.com'
> domain, you would need the owner of the 'msn.com' domain to coorperate
> with you to make entries in their DNS in order for it to work. You
> would either need to have your server on and connected to the Internet
> 24 hours a day, or have some sort of store and forward arrangement
> (Which would work, but not very well)
>
> If you just want to send mail to a list, you should not need to
> configure or even operate an email server such as Exim. You should just
> use some email client program (In Linix, Netscape Communicator would
> probably be the easiest to setup - it works mostly like the MSWindows
> version.)
>
> If ou just want to let your Linux server function as a sort of smart
> 'client', I would check in your Outlook Express client in Windows to
> find out what your 'outgoing mail server is', then use that in the
> smarthost entry in Exim. Assuming you have a POP3 account with MSN, you
> could theoretically use a program called fetchmail to retrieve mail
> from that account and deliver it to the unix mailbox to be read
> locally..
>
> In any case 'free.email.msn.com' doesn't exist as an Internet mail
> address at all right now, and there is no way you can make it exist
> without cooperation from the domain administrator at msn.com - who may
> be a very difficult person to get in touch with - and isn't likely to
> have any motivation to just create msn.com subdomains for random
> customers - their tech support people will definately NOT be able to
> help you with that.
>
> You may want to find a local unix guru to help you out. If you are
> using Exim, your best luck would be to find someone on this list that
> was geographically near you that would be willing to help. Post a rough
> idea of your location and see if anyone offers ;) I am located in West
> Michigan to answer the obvious next question..
>
> Unix and Exim are fairly powerful and technically advanced server tools
> that arent ordinarily designed for non-technical end-users.
> Unfortunately, MSN is a service not setup with advanced users in mind
> (In fact, most of Microsoft's offerings are targeted at the lowest
> common denominator, and generally don't do much for technically savvy
> folk - which is why we prefer Linux/Unix/etc) - It might also be worth
> looking for a local, unix-based ISP to switch to. Their administrators
> stand a very good chance of being able to help you (now wether they
> would have any time available to do so is another question)
>
> > David
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Dave C." <djc@???>
> > To: "davidturetsky" <davidturetsky@???>
> > Cc: "exim-users" <exim-users@???>
> > Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2000 5:13 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Exim] New exim user
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Ok, upon further testing their appears to be no address for
> > > 'email.msn.com' either. It appears you are using OutLook Express, and
> > > it uses outbound SMTP for sending mail. Check the setting for
'outgoing
> > > mail server' under Tools/Accounts/Mail/Properties/Servers.. Whatever
is
> > > set there should be what you use in your smarthost router below..
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, 10 Aug 2000, Dave C. wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > If you are in fact a customer of MSN and not working from them, and
you
> > > > need to use their 'outgoing mail server' (which you probably do, and
is
> > > > called smarthosting), then it appears from your mail headers the
> > > > 'email.msn.com' is the correct host.. See below for exactly where to
> > > > put that..
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, 10 Aug 2000, Dave C. wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > See comments inline in your config file..
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, 10 Aug 2000, davidturetsky wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > When I run exim -bt davidturetsky@???
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I get:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > david@
> > > > > > <---davidturetsky@???
> > > > > > deliver to david@
> > > > > > router-smarthost, transport=remote_smtp
> > > > > > host msn.com [207.46.176.152]
> > > > > > host msn.com [207.46.185.39]
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I added in 'email' to the address and a similar entry to
resolv.conf
> > (as
> > > > > > well as smtp.email.msn.com)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Rerunning the attempt to flush the spool with the domain
> > nomenclature change
> > > > > > to @email.msn.com or @smtp.msn.com produced the same result as
> > originally
> > > > > > posted
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I made a few modifications to exim.conf (which follows):
> > > > > >
> > > > > > added entry for local_domains=free:email.msn.com (for list
> > application)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > removed entry after qualify_domain = (leaving rhs blank)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > added .com to route_list in smarthost section (to resolve
'lookup of
> > host
> > > > > > "msn" failed in smarthost router')
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Here is exim.conf, with most comments removed (except pending
> > section for
> > > > > > mailing list)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > # See my comment below, this is the MAIN config section
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > qualify_domain =
> > > > > > local_domains = free:email.msn.com
> > > > > > local_domains_include_host = true
> > > > > > local_domains_include_host_literals = true
> > > > > > never_users = root
> > > > > > host_lookup_nets = 0.0.0.0/0
> > > > > > sender_host_reject_relay = *
> > > > > > trusted_users = mail
> > > > > > smtp_verify = false
> > > > > > gecos_pattern = ^([^,:]*)
> > > > > > gecos_name = $1
> > > > > >
> > > > > > received_header_text = "Received: \
> > > > > > ${if def:sender_fullhost {from ${sender_fullhost} \
> > > > > > ${if def:sender_ident {(${sender_ident})}}\n\t}\
> > > > > > {${if def:sender_ident {from ${sender_ident} }}}}\
> > > > > > by ${primary_hostname} \
> > > > > > ${if def:received_protocol {with
${received_protocol}}} \
> > > > > > (Exim ${version_number} #${compile_number}
(Debian))\n\t\
> > > > > > id ${message_id}"
> > > > > > end
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > # See my comment below, this is the TRANSPORTS config section
> > > > >
> > > > > > local_delivery:
> > > > > > driver = appendfile
> > > > > > group = mail
> > > > > > mode = 0660
> > > > > > mode_fail_narrower = false
> > > > > > file = /var/spool/mail/${local_part}
> > > > > >
> > > > > > address_pipe:
> > > > > > driver = pipe
> > > > > > return_output
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > address_file:
> > > > > > driver = appendfile
> > > > > >
> > > > > > address_directory:
> > > > > > driver = appendfile
> > > > > > no_from_hack
> > > > > > prefix = ""
> > > > > > suffix = ""
> > > > > >
> > > > > > address_reply:
> > > > > > driver = autoreply
> > > > > >
> > > > > > remote_smtp:
> > > > > > driver = smtp
> > > > > >
> > > > > > end
> > > > >
> > > > > # See my comment below this is the DIRECTORS section
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > real_local:
> > > > > > prefix = real-
> > > > > > driver = localuser
> > > > > > transport = local_delivery
> > > > > >
> > > > > > system_aliases:
> > > > > > driver = aliasfile
> > > > > > file = /etc/aliases
> > > > > > search_type = lsearch
> > > > > >
> > > > > > userforward:
> > > > > > driver = forwardfile
> > > > > > no_verify
> > > > > > check_ancestor
> > > > > > file = .forward
> > > > > > modemask = 002
> > > > > > filter
> > > > > >
> > > > > > localuser:
> > > > > > driver = localuser
> > > > > > transport = local_delivery
> > > > > >
> > > > > > end
> > > > >
> > > > > # See my comment below, this is the ROUTERS section
> > > > >
> > > > > > smarthost:
> > > > > > driver = domainlist
> > > > > > transport = remote_smtp
> > > > > > route_list = "* msn.com bydns_a"
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Change 'msn.com' to be 'email.msn.com' in this line. That will at
least
> > > > get your outgoing mail working.
> > > >
> > > > It wont do anything for free.email.msn.com, which wont work without
> > > > some arrangements with the MSN.COM mail/dns administrators. (Which
they
> > > > probably wont do unless you either pay them for the subdomain, or
> > > > unless you are setting this up on their behalf)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > ^^^
> > > > > Here's the problem. You are telling exim to take all remote mail,
and
> > > > > smarthost it to the host 'msn.com' - the problem is that that host
is
> > > > > not running an MTA at port 25. Perhaps you should be using
> > smtp.msn.com
> > > > > or something like that?
> > > > >
> > > > > If you are an administrator at msn.com, do you really need this
> > machine
> > > > > to smarthost mail to another, or could it just deliver mail
> > > > > normally? If it needs to smarthost, I would think you would know
what
> > > > > machine the smarthost was (and it definately isn't 'msn.com')
> > > > >
> > > > > If you aren't an administrator, do you have some arrangement with
them
> > > > > to transmit mail for free.email.msn.com to your server? If not,
then
> > it
> > > > > won't be delivered to you, so unless this is something you are
> > > > > implenting on a private network it wont serve any useful purpose.
I
> > > > > will note that there currently isn't and record in the DNS for
that
> > > > > domain.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you are receiving mail for just one address at that domain and
want
> > > > > to filter your incoming mail by address, you arent really using
the
> > > > > right tool - you should use filters or procmail or a MUA-based
tool.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > end
> > > > > > * * F,2h,15m; G,16h,2h,1.5;
F,4d,8h
> > > > > >
> > > > > > end
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The entire below are in the wrong config file section. This is the
> > > > > 'retry' section. This appears to be a director, and should be in
the
> > > > > appropriately commented section (The comments in the config file
> > > > > normally indicate which is which - I've added notes here so you
can
> > > > > tell which is which..
> > > > >
> > > > > > # Handle mail to free@???
> > > > > >
> > > > > > #lists:
> > > > > > # driver = forwardfile
> > > > > > # domains = free.email.msn.com
> > > > > > # no_more
> > > > > > # require_files = /etc/exim/lists/${local_part}
> > > > > > # file = /etc/exim/lists/${local_part}
> > > > > > # no_check_local_user
> > > > > > # errors_to = #{local_part}-request
> > > > > >
> > > > > > end
> > > > > >
> > > > > > # End of Exim configuration file
