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ons, 2002-03-27 kl. 22:54 skrev Phil Pennock:
> > I also experience, that Phil Pennock's crappy mmdf 7-bit mmdf server is
> It's not mine. It's my employers'. I rarely touch it.
> > anihilating all mail from normal 8-bit mail servers on the Internet,
> Please be careful when you make sweeping generalisations like that. My
> employers are not litigious, but libellous claims of "annihilating"
> email are false.
I've always (since I began, with Exim, after mmdf and Netscape shit,)
had my Exim servers serve 8 bit data. I'd contend that those servers
that do not serve 8-bit data anihilate mail.
As I said, I have the vast majority of Europeans with me.
> Our mail systems are standards compliant, in not being 8-bit clean.
> Being 8-bit clean is desirable, but not necessary. They process email
> perfectly well. We'd just like them to be better featured.
They are not better featured. You know just as well as I do, that as
soon as you can kick out mmdf and serve 8 bits, you will do (i.e. go
over to 8-bit Exim). I dislike hypocrites.
I was SICK today at getting mail from one of the largest dailies
(Dagbladet) in Norway that I couldn't read properly, because your mmdf
server, due for death 5 years ago, chopped the data to bits. It's not
just Norway, either. It's "European or not European".
> > Jim Seagrave, God rest his soul,
> He ain't dead (yet).
Give him my best, he's the cove who started me with Demon.
> > 5M Norwegians, 7M Swedes, 5M Danes, 88M Germans, God knows how many
> > French and Belgian Walloons, Spaniards, Portugese, Icelanders etc.
> > can't send me normal mail through Phil Pennock's crappy mmdf 7-bit
> > server, so that I can read it properly.
> What is your problem? Why are you unable to accept the fact that
> sometimes you don't know enough about a topic? You clearly haven't
> bothered to go read the MIME RFCs, you clearly haven't made a serious
> attempt to understand Content-Transfer-Encoding:. So why do you persist
> in making an argument with no factual basis?
I know enough. It's not my problem, I can shift ISPs and get what I
want. I want standards that are normal in this part of the world. As I
said, if you think you, as an Englishman, can take up the cudgel against
the rest of Europe, then long live Thatcher. But I opted out 40 years
ago.
"Standards". Do you know that they once thought that the world was flat?
Do you know what they did to Gallileo?
All I want is Norwegian letters from Norwegian servers (and I'm talking
about ALL Norwegian servers), without you anihilating them. And don't
tell me that all Norwegians are wrong and only Demon is right. Or you'll
have to include all French, all Swedes, all Danes, all Icelanders et.
> > So, what harm does an underscore do?
> The Internet is more than just a collection of machines running Unix
> variants, Windows or MacOS. Believing that standards and restrictions
> are put in place for the hell of it, is perhaps inadvisable.
So what harm does an underscore do?
> Arguing that _your_ systems handle underscores, other Unix and Windows
> systems do, therefore every system should is disgustingly parochial.
> Some of us run mail-systems designed to communicate, in a
> standards-conformant way, with as many other mail-systems as possible.
As possible? See above.
> We achieve this by working to the standards; RFCs 2821 & 2822 are the
> result of many years work, based upon practical experience and feedback
> from many talented and competent people; go read RFC 2822 section 8, the
> acknowledgements.
>
> Whilst that's not _proof_, it should perhaps serve as an indication that
> you should be careful before you contradict their combined wisdom and
> should ensure that you know what you're talking about.
Go tell the rest of Europe! I reckon that as soon as you can kick out
mmdf, you'll have whatever MTA you choose serving 8-bit data.
When you do, I'll come back from te dead and call you a hypocrite.
Your "combined wisdom" is confined to the part of the world that
confines itself to the English language - and that's shrinking daily.
> I have replied to the points raised, publically, in the same forum in
> which they were raised. If you disagree with the situation or claims,
> and can't provide references to back your claims, please don't follow up
> on exim-users. It's off-topic. If you wish to claim
> right-of-reply-to-reply, it is surely advisable to first bother reading
> the relevant standards and making an effort to understand them.
I've read the standards. I've also read the Bible, from page 1 to the
end.
Why on earth do you think that Phil Hazel made Exim 8-bit clean?
> Me. Just me. Not speaking for my employer. Despite attempts to make
> me synonymous with my employer. The General Manager would be turning in
> his grave. If he were dead. Which is isn't. Nor is the NOC Manager.
> Implications to the contrary.
Well, if I was your employer, I'd give you a knighthood. You deserve it.
Come to think of it, if I were he, you'd probably end up in the house of
Lords.
Will you now start serving me 8-bit clean Norwegian data from Dagbladet,
or do I have to go over to xs4all?
Phil, I have nothing against you. Quite the reverse, I look up to you.
Your knowledge and obvious experience are patent.
However, I don't like hypocrites.
:c)
Tony
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Tony Earnshaw
e-post: tonni@???
www: http://www.billy.demon.nl
Telefoon: (+31) (0)172 530428
Mobiel: (+31) (0)6 51153356
GPG/PGP Fingerprint: 3924 6BF8 A755 DE1A 4AD6 FA2B F7D7 6051 3BE7 B981
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