Re: [Exim] Exim setup done and it works ok, but...

On Wed, 19 Jul 2000, The awesome and feared Dave C. commented thusly,

> Im not suggesting any specific messages. I am just saying there really
> is no good reason for them to be cute and witty.

I think that *friendly* messages have a chance of being actually read than
mechanical messages.

> >
> "specific and to the point, and contain necesarry details". But having
> it say "Im sorry Mr user-person, I tried really hard to run your
> program and crunched my chips as hard as I could.... etc.." is just a
> waste..

yes I couldn't agree more that is too witty, although it would be amusing
and might provide a laugh to lighten the day :). But surely the bounce
messages from qmail and postfix could never be clasiified as in the same
style of the message above.

>
> Why on earth should it matter what BRAND of mail delivery software is
> being run? If the gas tank in your car is empty, do you really give a
> crap which company manufactured the tank?

Well if it was due to a leak in the tank I might be interested ;)

The Identity of the MTA would be important to some users, ie if there mail
is delivered slooowly etc, they can ask the admin to switch to a better
MTA.

> Especially to an end user, who is going to know sendmail from
> Foobarmail? (And to an technically proficient end user, they body is
> going to be useless anyway - they will want to see the headers, which
> amazingly enough DO contain what specific type of mail software you are
> using)

Can I rephrase the question, What would exim have to loose if it identifys
itself as the MTA in the bounce message?? are you afraid that people would
think that "Exim is crappy it wouldn't deliver my mail etc"..

> > >
> > > A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its
> > > recipients. The following address(es) failed:"
> > >
> > > Why is this any less clearer? The answer is that it isnt - but neither
> >
> > Wrong pal, the qmail message is more clearer, it says that is a *permanent
> > error*, the above Exim message doesn't say so. Well according to your
> > logistics there would be many users who would assume that the MTA will
> > keep on trying to deliver and that they don't have to check the address
> > etc.
> >
> > So as you can see not only is the Exim message not informative enough, it
> > is less clearer that the qmail message. If users are as dumb as you
> > propese then surely I can see Exim MAILER_DAEMONS getting more messages
> > like "hey mailer daemon, has this failed permanently", "hey what am I
> > suppose to do next" etc..
>
> It is clear that it was sent by a program to anyone that can
> read. Anyone with a clue will realize that you can't, (for the most
> part) engage in english conversation with a program, and if they have
> further questions, they should contact LOCAL (eg, their OWN ISP or
> company help desk) for help.

Well Dave, it is quite clear that you have a unsubstantiated grudge
against "witty" messages. For example you say that it is clear that the
exim message is send by a program and that users won't mistake that it was
written by a human.

Well the qmail mesage that you seem to have a hate for, *specifically*
says "Hi this is the qmail-send *program*" emphasis on the word
*program*, so it specifically says that it is a program, so according to
your insane logic then whats the problem with the qmail message, although
it is friendly it can't be mistaken for a human.

BTW you are avoiding the specific problem here which is that the Exim
message says "The following address(es) failed", and it gives *no*
indication wether it was a temporary error or a permanent one. remember
you are the one who said that you should not expect a iota of intelligence
from the end user. So I can imagine some users thinking that there is no
need to write another message, the MTA would keep on trying and eventually
deliver it etc...what a sin :(

> "You message could not be delivered" should be sufficient for anyone
> with a clue. Eg, just as "STOP" should be sufficient for someone
> driving to realize they need to do just that.

Well does STOP mean that you have to STOP permanently...hmm...or
temporaily. ;)

Please get your examples correct old boy, you are fighting
a loosing battle here :)

Surely anyone can see that "Your message could not be delivered", gives no
idea whether it is a permanently undeliverable or temporarily
undeliverable right....

>Perhaps we should have
> big posters explaining what STOP means, along with a brand
> identification of the stop-sign manufacturer at street corners?

Ranting and raving again my fine friend, BTW do you suffer from
constipation..that might explain why you are so angry...:)

Grendel

Hi, I'm a signature virus. plz set me as your signature and help me spread
:)