[ On Friday, April 23, 1999 at 10:12:04 (-0700), Steve Lamb wrote: ]
> Subject: Re: OFFTOPIC was Re: [EXIM] (un)blocking dynamic IP addresses [Was: A way to do this?]
>
> On Thu, 22 Apr 1999 14:32:49 -0400 (EDT), Greg A. Woods wrote:
> >
> >No, no, you don't worry about the load -- you've got it mostly anyway
> >because most people will be following your instructions and pointing
> >their MUAs at your gateway anyway. The extra load will only be from the
> >spammers.
>
> So, I'm a spammer now. Thanks for the distiction. I'll be sure to turn
> on smarthosts in Exim so all my mailing lists go through my provider's server
> instead of mine, I'll bet they'll love that.
Come on now Steve -- you know what I meant (and if you don't, then
hopefully you'll figure it out sooner rather than later).
If you're trying to use a service designed for a single PC-style client
and one simple MUA (that should be using LMTP instead of SMTP to deliver
e-mail -- which if we'd invented it 10 years ago would totally avoid
this issue in the first place) then that's what you should do. If
instead you're plugging into it and trying to run a full fledged MTA,
(which is possible because of the highly configurable nature of the
MTA!), then don't be surprised if it doesn't work.
If you want to buy TCP/IP transit, then buy that -- don't buy a dial-up
account with a dynamic IP address and an AUP that basically tells you
were to point your MUA and then bitch and complain that you can't send
SMTP transparently through it. You also can't complain when more and
more dial-up providers strengthen their AUPs and then enforce them
either. It's none of your bloody business what they do, so quit whining
about it.
This issue isn't about the few nerds who want to get the best bang for
their buck and work around the system because they know what's happening
under the covers -- this is about generic naive users and how to assume
responsibility for the actions of those users.
If your dial-up ISP is truly a "service provider" then they'll figure
out some way to host your mailing lists directly on their servers in
such a way that you have ultimate control over them, and responsibility
for them. Maybe they'll charge you differently for this service, or
maybe they'll use it as a carrot to dangle in front of you in hopes you
stick with them for the longer term.
> >You also get instant and total blocking of all open relay abuse. This
> >alone is one of the best reasons to redirect outging SMTP to your own
> >mail relay gateway.
>
> You also get instant and totally pissed off customers. But, hey,
> customers are cattle, we don't need them to run a consumer based service,
> right?
Pu-leeeeze! Remember what I said about starting up this way before you
get customers? Remember what I said about spending a little time and
effort up front to warn current users that you're about to enforce your
AUP with technical controls? It's *trivial* to manage these sorts of
expectations. Sure, the few nerds who want to run their own MTA will be
pissed off, but as one ISP operator I know says: "The sooner we're rid
of them and they go bug some other poor happless provider the better.
We don't need their aggrevation and the support costs they generate."
If your boss doesn't think that way, then that's fine (his loss! ;-),
but there *are* lots of ISP owners who do feel that way, and you'd be
best to avoid them rather than to anger them. The market will define
their success and even if you can influence the market, you cannot
control all the providers.
You're one in a million Steve -- learn to live with it.
--
Greg A. Woods
+1 416 218-0098 VE3TCP <gwoods@???> <robohack!woods>
Planix, Inc. <woods@???>; Secrets of the Weird <woods@???>
--
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