On Fri, 18 Nov 2005, Jeremiah Foster wrote:
> On 11/15/05, Tony Finch <dot@???> wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, 15 Nov 2005, Fred Viles wrote:
> > >
> > > What I'm not clear on is just how a "new users list" would have
> > > helped you. In what way are we thinking that answers on the proposed
> > > list would differ from answers here? All I've got so far is that the
> > > charter would request more toleration of RTFM questions.
> >
> > I'm also somewhat sceptical of the need for splitting exim-users. MBM's
> > point about thread drift makes me think it would be futile.
>
>
>
> If I may politely disagree, I think there is little risk of thread drift.
> When I post to the list
> you often answer. I sometimes have a hard time understanding your answers,
> obviously not because
> they are wrong or incomplete but rather because they are terse and packed
> with an understanding of exim
> that I do not possess.
>
> WRT the list
> > being "intimidating", there is more flaming than I would like, but I think
> > the regulars are reasonably tolerant of answering "simple" questions
> > already.
>
>
>
> To be frank, this list has scared off even some capable sysadmins and
> developers. Of all the lists I read, this is the most
Yes, I've seen people scared away. Sometimes the behavior here is
somewhat irrational and certainly harsh.
> technical, and unwelcoming. It has its own culture and that culture is
> intolerant of ignorance to the point of rudeness.
> I hasten to add that many, indeed the core of the list, are exceedingly
> polite and helpful, including Mr. Hazel and yourself. But there are
> others who spew venom unneccessarily and removing them from contact with
> newer users would be a positive thing.
>
> > We don't respond with RTFM, we respond with a reference to the
Actually, I was told that here. And my question wasn't accessible in
the documentation.
> > configuration option that the questioner needs to know about. The
> > documentation is already very good so I see little point in paraphrasing
> > it.
>
The book helped me the most. When I think of paraphrasing the
material, because I am a teacher and think of such things, I realize
that it would come out like the book. The material is dense though
and you have to read carefully.
After all, learning exim is a significant project.
BTW, oddly, Python email lists are always polite and patient way
beyond my patience. In fact, all the other lists I monitor are kinder
than this one. I don't know why exim would collect an impolite and
competitive culture. Philip is always very nice and doesn't engender
rudeness at all.
But, the subject matter is very difficult and confusing and that's the
situation. Maybe the experts could be more tolerant of the rest of
us. My mom's rule, which I don't espouse in all circumstances, might
be worthwhile here: if you don't have something nice to say, don't say
anything at all.
I'm neutral about splitting the list. I'd join both if there were 2.
Marilyn Davis
>
>
> The documentation is excellent. But it is voluminous and that is a barrier
> to many, unfortunately. I see much
> good in paraphrasing it.
>
> The kinds of questions that Jason lists in his more recent post seem to me
> > to be the bread and butter of exim-users.
>
>
> Sincerely,
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