RE: [exim] Thoughts on Open Relays

Hi Ian,

> 1. Marc shouldn't run an open relay because it will be open
> to SPAM. Well he assures us that he will be filtering all the
> spam.

Bush assures a lot of things as well. Do I believe him?

> Furthermore, there's plenty of spam that comes through
> closed relays, and most spam I see seems to come directly
> from infected PCs. So, the association between spam and open
> relays is somewhat old hat now.

Ok. Just because the invention of killing people with guns and bombs decreased the impact of stupid people running around with knives, do we now not care about people killed with a knife anymore?

> If Marc says he can break it
> - to the extent that open relay tests don't work - then let him have
> a go at it.

Fine _if_ and only if he can break it. If he cannot, this will not have an impact on him but on the people receiving spam through his open relays.

> [controversial observation: if we'd lived with the open
> relays and fought the spam instead, perhaps we wouldn't have the
> spambot problem now!]

I am open for suggestion. How do you fight spam?

> Should we believe that Marc can block the spam? Well, the
> question is does he have the resources to stay ahead in the
> spam/anti-spam arms race? No, there are no silver bullets,
> but if he has the time or staff to stay on top of spammers'
> innovations, then he should be OK.

I am not so new to spam-fighting either and I seriously doubt that he (or anyone else for that matter) has the resources.

> 99.9% might not be good enough, though. My guess is that
> he'll get blacklisted in the end.

Agreed.

> Presumably he's going to
> use a dedicated host for this, and not risk getting his
> customers' mail blacklisted, too?

Why? I think his system is perfect? So where is the point of just having this on a dedicated machine? It is either perfect or something he simply should not do.

> 2. Some people keep asking him to post his IP address so that
> they can block it. Others have posted it.

I find that funny myself.

> 3. Some people are arguing that Marc's open relay will get
> flooded with third party traffic. Well, so what? That's his
> lookout. We don't need to care what it will cost him. We only
> need to care about the costs to the rest of the world. It is
> reasonable to warn him of the possible costs to him, I guess,
> but we shouldn't get steamed up about them.

I could not care less for his costs. I care about mine.... :-)

> 4. Some people don't understand what benefits Marc sees. Well, so
> what? Marc clearly does see some benefits. He might be wrong about
> them, but that's not something we should care about. We only
> need to care about the costs to the rest of the world.

Most of us do just that. Most people told him that this is a bad idea because the risk of abuse is too high and the benefit is rather small. Arguing on that point only has the intention of possibly solving his problems without the need for an open relay. He is a free person and can do whatever he likes. But if you start a thread and ask for opinions, you should expect some coming... :-)

> So, I don't think I've seen a good argument against what Marc is
> offering.

If he was able to filter 100% spam and make sure his open relay will never under no circumstances be abused: Correct. How big is the chance of that?

Just a personal opinion as well of course...

Kind regards,
JP